Group Riding Tips...a good read for all

[demenshea]

Pashnit has given many of us ample opportunity to get together and ride on several occasions. We have set a standard here, for fun camaraderie, sightseeing and education, all found in the form of a group ride.

Being a newbie rider, I have found myself, in regards to “the group ride”, less than satisfied. I have found myself either over my head, riding with those that expected more than I was able to provide or feeling like odd woman out, trailing the group by a distance so not to ride over my head. Quite the compelling irony!

My emotions on the subject have kept me riding alone a good part of the time, something, of which my mother does not approve. For her tolerance, I have been attempting some group rides and have been pleasantly surprised by the outcome.

The most memorable and enjoyable rides of my riding career have been spent with other motorcyclists on group rides. Three pashnit rides have come to mind; Kings-Sequoia 1, organized by Larry (Jester) and later the Katrina Relief Ride organized by Gary (Gary) and lastly The Huny Ride organized by Jim (Kluts). The Huny Ride was a slow paced sight-seeing ride through the Gold Country and around Sacramento for riders and their spouses. On all three rides I felt comfortable knowing that no one had any expectations of another rider, other than a safe arrival at our planned destination.

As Pashnit expands, we have a growing number of newbie riders and many people anticipating their first group ride. In light of that, a web article was brought to my attention, one that I feel should be posted here on the forums, for all to read both newbie and veteran.

Thank you Rob (Rawb) for presenting this wonderful information to me. I have read it more than once and have noted what I consider serious words of wisdom when considering group riding. Some of you will recognize this as coming from “The Pace” which has provided riders with many great hints regarding the riding pace they choose. This and more can be found here:

http://motorcyclebloggers.com/

Keep in mind that the company of other more experienced riders can serve as a marvelous example of good riding skills but can also place undue stress on a new rider by creating a pace that is often too brisk or demanding. Best to keep this important philosophy when entertaining a group ride, “I’ll ride with anyone once. Afterwards, I choose to ride with them again.”

A long read…but worth the investment. Ride safely…

[demenshea]

Group Riding: Part 1 - Choose Your Riders Wisely

This is Part 1 of a series dedicated to dissecting “Group Riding” with the emphasis being on sport bikes and sport riding. Please note that I am (now) sensitive to the growing female rider population and when I use “him”, “his”, or “guy” only, it is solely because I suck at typing. Please consider those terms not gender specific.

To kick off this series on Group Riding, I figure it makes sense to start with the most important: Choosing Your Riders. I use the word CHOOSE purposely because there should be a conscious choice made for the group you ride along side. In that are two key characteristics I look for when I choose people to ride with - Humble & Smart.

Sidebar #1 - Still Meet People: I am in no way suggesting that you only ride with people you know prior. I have met some of the best riders by simply hooking up for a ride. My suggestion is to use the “Trust but Verify” philosophy. I’ll ride with anyone once. Afterwards, I choose to ride with them again. End Sidebar #1

HUMBLE
This falls right into being a smart rider, but is so important that it deserves more depth. Having humility when you’re riding is essential, but difficult given the potential ‘red mist’ lurking around the next corner. Being able to admit to yourself that there is always, ALWAYS someone faster than you is vital to being humble. There is doubt that being passed in the mountains is a blow to the Rossi in all of us, but as we all saw in the ‘05 Laguna Seca MotoGP, even Rossi ‘knows when to say when’. Even worse is when a guy on a ‘86 Nighthawk 650 blows by you. Bottom line - it happens.

There is no worse reaction to being passed then to exceed your limits trying to hang with the faster guy. That is not to say trying to hang for a turn or two to learn his line, etc. and backing off at your limit is a bad thing. Its when you ride over your ability due to insult that usually results in poor judgment and in many cases a wreck. Remember, there is no checkered flag or Umbrella Girls with champagne at the end of your favorite road. If you absolutely need something to race, try the clock.

Similarly, allowing yourself to be ‘pushed’ by a faster rider behind you is equally as dangerous (actually…probably more dangerous). The reasons for doing so are the same: ego. The result is less concentration on what’s ahead and more on what’s behind you. Aside from police, nothing behind you matters as far as your head is concerned. The only time I ever check my mirrors is when I hear someone else’s exhaust or sirens - I pull to the side for both. Again, its hard to do, but if you have a guy faster than you on your heels, wave ‘em by. You will have a better ride and they will too.

RULE #1: There is always someone faster than you. If they pass you at speed, let them go. If they push you from behind, let them by. Do this and everyone involved will have a better, safer ride.

The second part to being humble is not talking smack around the campfire. I say this tongue and cheek because of my Northern Georgia riding days at the Two Wheels Only Motorcycle Resort in Suches, GA. I always took the approach of the fly on the wall when groups were meeting for the first time over a beer and a blaze. At the end of the first night, I knew who was going to crash by the week’s end…and my predictions were pretty accurate. When you talk crap, you set expectations (likely false). If you need to set false expectations to impress others, chances are you lack the humility to either let faster guys go or let faster guys by.

RULE #2: Leave the trash talking and self-promoting to the NBA. Even though all of us are world champions in our own mind, take that to the grave. Creating false impressions / expectations is a sure way to ride over your head and crash. Just think how cool you will look the next morning manning the tents as the rest of us leave.

The final part to my definition of humility is in regards to giving “riding faster” advice. In general, I try to avoid it. While everyone should help each other, we all have our own unique riding style, comfort, and ability. I do not want to be responsible for giving advice that is too advanced or beyond the rider’s comfort zone. Generic things like vision improvement (looking through the turn) for someone who is looking directly in front of the bike are great. Do so and guess what - they go faster without ever instructing them to go faster. On the other hand, “I think you should increase your entry speed into turns” is probably not good advice. Its always a case-by-case judgment when giving advice, especially when its usually sought by newbs. That is where great care is needed to consider their ability.

Rule #3: Leave the “riding faster” advice alone. Try and stick to the non-mechanical side of riding: vision, comfort, etc. If you really want to give performance advice, preach baby steps and emphasize their personal comfort zone. There is nothing worse then having a buddy crash because he was not ready to ride as fast as you both thought.

SMART
Given the choice of only one characteristic, I will take a smart rider over a fast one any day. A smart rider is the combination of many things: Humble, consistent, reliable, and yes…conservative among others. Even though each person’s definition is probably different, we all know what being a smart rider is. I spent almost a whole day on a sport bike road trip with a novice. She was smart. I knew that when we came to the tight stuff, I could disappear without regard for her well-being (in her control) because I knew she didn’t ride over her head. I’d wait at the end of the stretch, and every time she appeared…go figure. She rode very consistent and it made my ride more enjoyable by being worry-free.

A reliable rider can lead a group or follow. If you are leading a group, you must think for the group (stop at major turns, etc). If you are not leading, don’t think…just follow. A smart group will already have the faster guys out front so nobody’s ride is bogarted by lapped traffic. It is that simple.

Reliability is also an issue that deals with the man and machine separately. I am picky when it comes to this: Do we need to stop for a smoke or bathroom break every 45 minutes? Is everyone’s bike in good running condition? There is no bigger buzz-kill then riding with a guy who knowingly has a faulty or even questionable bike. Being roadside with the limited tools / options is no fun for anyone. Multiply the downtime by the number of people to get the true lost riding time.

And finally, smart riders should be a little conservative. Quite often on road trips, new twisties are discovered and the ‘lap’ record shouldn’t be attempted the first time through. This idea also includes the routine (read: all the time) top speed runs on the longer straightaways between turns, passing on the blind double yellow, multi-gear wheelies, and all the other unnecessaries that draw unwanted attention to the group.

RULE #4: Each person has to figure out what a SMART rider is (at least include the above definition of humble) and surround yourself by them. Your group will have high quality, trouble free rides and trips likely without any surprises.

Sidebar #2 - Expanding Your Group: I can provide two pieces of advice from my experiences in group riding. It is probably best to introduce new guys one at a time to your group if possible. One person can be managed fairly easy and its the best way to see if he ‘plays well with others’.

Second, take it from my firsthand experience, but not everyone on a forum is as they seem. The real version of a forum member (or whatever) does not always meet expectations of the perceived electronic version. If at all possible, ride with him prior to taking a road trip together regardless of how well you get along online. Ask me how I know. End Sidebar #2

Sidebar #3 - Riding With Racers: I will probably take some heat for this, but not all racers are good in the mountains. I often find that their track experience and technique(s) aren’t practical for the street. For example, trail-braking is great for the track, but it takes better judgment and more reservation on the street because you have fewer alternate options if you overcook a turn. Second, throw some obstacles at a track guy, and often they cannot cope. Have a bus cross a double yellow with the back end, have a blind decreasing radius turn thrown at you, have a boulder in the middle of the road. Tracks do not have unknowns after the first lap or two, that cannot be said for the mountian twisties where all that is in sight is part of the next turn. And finally, by the very nature of racing, “racers” are fast. The problem is that they know it…and too often need to prove it. See the definition of Humble. End Sidebar #3

[demenshea]

Group Riding: Part 2 - Group Size


Riding motorcycles in a group is one of the best ways to experience the sport. The uniqueness is that while riding is a solo sport and everyone rides their own machine, a group hits the same roads and often ends up with the common bond that team sports require. While I do ride alone at times (especially in the dirt), nothing is more enjoyable then shredding some rubber and sharing the moment with buddies.

I have had great experiences with group rides and as well as logistical nightmares. In my opinion, there are two main questions to answer: What’s the duration of the ride? What are the knowns versus unknowns? Let me explain:

What’s the duration of the ride?
On a one day ride, the group size is really no big deal. No matter how big the group, everyone is probably local. In this case limited special arrangements need to be considered because anyone can simply peel off from the group at any time. Its still important to split up the group into faster and slower riders (remember we are all Humble about our ability) so that everyone keeps their own desired pace.

I have been on organized day rides of a hundred or so and some, believe it or not, have worked very well. Yet somehow, I have been on rides with four people that were complete disasters. The most difficult thing to pull of on a large group ride is meeting and /or rolling on time. This simply boils down to if the roads and riders known. But again, day rides can work with any size.

Group sizing is much more critical on multi-day roads trips where restaurants, hotels, and being a long way from home are involved. Its my opinion that between two and six people makes for the best group size. The ideal size is four for me. Four still allows the group to mix it up with the others, yet is small enough to get one single table at a restaurant. In addition, its not hard to get three others with whom you trust, are Humble, and are Smart.

I also recommend (although no big deal) even numbers as this promotes the ‘buddy system’ of pairs. Pairing up regardless of the size of the group is a good thing for a couple of reasons. The most important being respect for the others’ ride. This means that if your buddy goes down, depending on the situation of course, you hang back with him, but the rest of the group forges ahead…remember we are talking vacation here. This makes selection your riding buddies pretty important. The two-person buddy system makes it easier for gas-stops, food-stops, and lodging as you can alternate the bills for each.

RULE #5: Group size is a numbers game. There is always a chance, no matter how good the rider, that something will go wrong. Whether its mechanical or someone meets Mr. Asphalt, the chance is there. The larger the group size, the larger the chance of misfortune…its cumulative.

What are the knowns versus unknowns?
On a multi-day road trip, there is no reason for everyone not to have a copy of the planned trip map. This would include marked spots for lunch, hotels, and any other major stops. If for whatever reason someone gets away from the group, they will always know where to be that night. While it sucks being split from your group riding solo, there is peace of mind knowing that the time alone is limited…heh - you might enjoy yourself!

The other indispensable piece of paper needed for each rider is a list of the group’s cell phone numbers. I was recently part of a one week trip with fourteen (count ‘em…fourteen) riders with the intent to ride together. Within thirty minutes of leaving our origin, we were broken up into five or so groups. With cell phones, voicemail, and of course a map, we were able to collect a few others and still meet up at the hotel for dinner that night. It turned an absolute nightmare into something that was manageable.

Rule #6: Get everyone maps and cell phone numbers. This info is vital to the success of the ride if people get split up. It takes a little work, but pays off ten-fold if needed.

Another reasonably common occurrence is when two buddies bring their two groups together. This is a great thing as the motorcycle world is a small, tight-knit community. I would still recommend that the two groups ride separately though. The benefit is that the respective groups know what to expect out of their riders (Note: I am talking about…say…two groups of four to six meeting for the first time). If the ability gap is simply too large then break the group up into ‘fast’ and ’slower’ groups, but break it up nonetheless.

Although this has been mentioned in the past, its also a perfect fit here. Consider introducing only one new rider to a group at a time. If you haven’t ridden with him, its more than likely you just met or don’t know each other that well. I’ve met some of the greatest people/riders by the “we’ll have to go for a ride some time” and via motorcycle forums. I have also met people I will never ride with again through the same avenues. Things like rider capability, judgment, and personality are likely not well known prior to the trip. Managing one unknown on a trip - good or bad - is not too difficult, but more than that becomes work. Who wants to work on vacation? Trust me when I say this, but if you are responsible for inviting someone who doesn’t blend, it reflects poorly on your credibility and judgment to introduce other new guys from that point forward.

Rule #7: Don’t experiment with more than one new rider on a multi-day road trip. Too may unknowns that can piss a lot of people off if the person doesn’t play well with others. If so, its ultimately your fault.

[demenshea]

Group Riding: Part 3 - “MY PACE”


There is a great article over at micapeak.com called Pace Yourself often referred to as “The Pace”, written by by Nick Ienatsch, June 1993 for Sport Rider Magazine. As the title suggests, its about keeping the pace on the street. I think its a great start, but I want to take a different approach as I think its too generic in a sense.

Everyone in a group needs to ride their own ride at their own pace, if that’s unacceptable, its time to find a new group. Instead of “The Pace”, people should ride at their own pace: MY PACE (say it with me…MY PACE). Yeah, its a little more soft science than normal, but simply considering it yours versus a generic group pace gives the rider ownership.

RULE #8: MY PACE is simply about the single rider and the road. Its the mindset of not riding beyond your capability. Since other riders’ paces do not matter, it will be easier to let guys go and let guys by. MY PACE is about MY comfort zone along with MY riding style.

RULE #9: MY PACE requires some humility especially if you are at the back of the pack. Ideally, everyone in the group is at a similar level. Inevitably, this is rarely the case, and MY PACE will be different for each rider. In a functional group though, everyone’s pace is acceptable and their should be no reason to hurry.

RULE #10: MY PACE is also having the common sense to go faster at your own comfort level and increments. Focus on things like proper vision, smoothness, and comfort before the bolt-on performance goodies that we all crave. All the horsepower in the world will not help a rider who lacks the body’s mental and physical fundamentals of riding.

That’s it. What? You were expecting another long-winded sermon. Not this time. MY PACE is simple. Its not about entry speed, the proper line, tire pressure, or being cool around the campfire. Its about being cool in the head: knowing your limits, pushing your limits in small doses if you choose, and riding your own ride.

I know MY PACE. Be sure to get to know yours if you don’t already.

[demenshea]

Group Riding: Part 4 - Riding in a Group


If you’ve decided to follow some of my suggestions by surrounding yourself with Humble and Smart riders, provided everyone with maps and cell phone numbers (for multi-day road trips), and ensure that everyone rides at their own pace, you’ve eliminated a great deal of the obstacles to having a fun and safe ride. I don’t have all the answers, but I have taken probably twenty or so multi-day road trips ranging from alone up to fourteen riders. Every time I ride in a group, I learn something new. Equally important as the good; is noting those things that didn’t work.

In a group ride, there are really only two options: Lead or Follow. It sounds simple I know, but don’t think its execution is easy, especially when you have a mixed crowd. Groups get completely FUBAR’d when people behind the leader stop following and start thinking. There is no reason for someone who is new to a set of roads to think about anything other than following with regard to where to go. Of course you have to think about the ride, but if you are following DON’T MAKE DECISIONS! Know where you are supposed to go and get there. If your group is any good whatsoever, they will be waiting together.

RULE #11: The leader of a section of the ride should be the one who both knows the area and is the fastest.

Its easy to imagine why you want the guy who knows the area to lead. Hopefully, he’ll let you in on the areas of caution (decreasing radius turns, surface condition, cops, etc.) Second, this person will probably have a good place in mind to take a break and gather up for the next section. And third, as mentioned in the past, it’s another unknown eliminated.

The group leader is the fastest guy in the best scenario, followed by the second fastest, and so on. In this case, the passing is reduced and no one gets pressured from behind. Of course, the guy in front has the longest to wait at the next stop, but that’s part of riding.

Often, the fastest guy is not the most familiar with the roads. If so, its best for the leader to explain the road to everyone and either get everyone to spread out accordingly, or prepare to wave someone by.

Sidebar: I realize that dicing it up with your buddies is a lot of fun. I do it too. I ride with guys who are all similar in speed (heh - or slightly faster) so I am fortunate that we are all usually within sight of each other. Its a great ‘Ha Ha’ feeling to show a buddy your front wheel in a turn. I am not saying that people must spread out…out of sight of each other…but it is the safest and I would recommend spreading out to newbs. End Sidebar

One of the few track rules that apply to the street is ‘the line’. Although there are no blue flags to tell you that you are about to be passed, your line is to be respected by any experienced rider. Again, its best to wave people by but that’s not always an immediate option. If you’re in an area of technical, tight twisties its best to keep your normal line and try to be predictable. The guy who is now on your rear tire will figure out a way to get around you. Smooth is vital for him to anticipate what line you will probably take. An erratic line makes it very difficult to pass and is no good for anyone.

If you are the one doing the passing, be cool. Yeah, if it’s a buddy you ride with a lot you can show him a wheel or maybe the middle finger, but otherwise wait for that short straightaway to overtake. If you pass someone in a turn and they didn’t know you were there, chances are you’re going to startle the guy as well as probably crowd his personal comfort bubble of space. That means you’re going to piss him off. I even wait to pass Harley’s until a straightaway (OK, my one HD dig ). An extra turn or two is not going to ruin your flow.

RULE #12: If you’re getting passed, be SMOOTH. If you’re doing the passing, be COOL. Either way you don’t want to ruin someone else’s pace, and you don’t want to be the cause of a fellow rider needing an underwear change!

The most common error I see with group rides involves passing on the double yellow. I can’t sit here and honestly say that I haven’t or don’t pass on the double yellow if I want to keep the ‘groove’ of the road going, but try and be as smooth as possible and moderate the right hand if you have an aftermarket exhaust. The problem is not passing on the double yellow, but having the first guy get by and wave the others on. While it seems helpful, it isn’t. Each rider should be 100% responsible for the decision to pass on the double yellow or at all. They know the risk level they are willing to take and capability best. I have seen countless times where the casual wave forward immediately turns into a panicked stop motion. That sucks. Get around the lapped traffic and move on. Let the others do the same without your ‘help’. If they get a ticket or worse, it was their decision.

RULE #13: Don’t wave people on to tell them its clear where they cannot see. As far as passing is concerned, it should be each rider’s decision whether or not to pass. If you get waved on, ignore it until you are comfortable in your mind to overtake.

Any group on a multi-day ride should briefly discuss and agree upon what I call a “Ticket Plan”. We are for the most part talking about sport bikes for this, but it can still apply to all groups. There are reasonable odds that a group of sport bikes will encounter the local revenue-generating machine called the police. Have a plan for that. Yours truly (back in my younger days) got a ticket for “excessive speed” because we passed people on the double yellow. They had cell phones. The actual pass had nothing to do with the ticket, but it gave the cops a chance to set up in front of us and get us for speeding.

If you’re hauling butt, its usually not the first guy who is pulled over…because he’s GONE. The second or third are the vulnerable ones. Whether or not you decide to pull over as a group or “every man for himself / I don’t know any of those guys” (we use the latter), you should know the cop ‘rules’ before you leave. Sometimes you end up taking one for the team…its a numbers game I guess. Be sure to wait for the guy getting nailed at the next stop.

RULE #14: Have an agreement as to how to handle cops / tickets. Just do it.

Other helpful practices that only need mention are:

* Use hand and turn signals when appropriate, but use them.
* Stop at all major intersections that are not obvious as to where to go or have not been explained.
* Your range limit is only as far as the smallest gas tank. Know the bike with the smallest range and use that number for fuel stops.
* Check out your bike and others for…bad stuff (low tire pressure, loose chain, brake light not working, etc.) at the breaks.

As for the rest, it all falls under common sense and experience. Mistakes will happen, people will get split up, and delays will occur if you ride in groups long enough. It’s all part of riding. All you can do is try to minimize the avoidable ones with good planning and smart riders.

[Don Hopkirk]

Thanks for sharing that Donna.

Don Hopkirk

[MegabyteBigE]

Great advice good reading, thanks Donna

[Sbyllek]

Thank you. a long read but definitely worth it!

[ontheGaS]

Donna, good points you make. I've not read much about how to
best go about group riding so thanks. I'd like to do a Pashnit ride
next year; do the Pashnit groups share the same philosophies on
the subject or does it change from ride to ride based on who is
the leader?

[UFO]

Great read Donna. But, hey, lighten up on us HD guys. Sometimes we ride Sprints too.